T-ono: Would you like giving me a quick introduction of yourself and your involvement in EVO?
Joey Cueller: I am the senior EVO director; I am the actual day by day coordinator for Evolution. I handle all the planning for an eight month period before Evolution takes place. I am also the Shoryuken.com headmaster and operate the day by day operations on that, too. And we're here this weekend to have a great tournament!
T-ono: Cool. Evolution has grown a lot; it went from being a tournament in 2002 at UCLA to taking place now in Tropicana on the strip. What's your opinion on this growth that has happened over the years?
JC: I actually thought the growth would stop at a point. It seems to keep going and going, more and more, and that requires to get bigger and bigger venues. This year was no exception; we actually ended up on the strip in the Tropicana. It went really well this year so far. If we continue to do well, we're looking to stay on the strip and get bigger and bigger numbers over the years. Because it can only continue to grow at this point - especially with all the high definition games coming out next year. It's going to get a really big community.
T-ono: Well, this year, EVO lost the sponsorship from Toyota. How do you think this has affected EVO?
JC: Well the Toyota deal was a two year contract, and we knew that coming into it. We tried to push it as much as we did. We consider this year, even though it's our tenth anniversary, a transition year. Because all the new games are coming out next year - we've got Street Fighter 4, Soul Calibur 4. So of course, the numbers are going to drop off a little bit because of online only registration, no guaranteed prize pool, games are old...So we expected the drop out, and that's what we got. But it's going to be great next year, and we're going to continue to look for sponsors to get it back to the way it was a few years ago.
T-ono: On SRK, somebody once posted a comparison between fighting games and skateboarding - and consequently, EVO and the X Games. Do you have any ambitions along those lines?
JC: I guess the endgame goal would be to get on TV and become a household thing. They have to understand what's going on and people will play fighting games regardless of whatever. They have games like Halo on TV and whatnot. The endgame goal is to have sponsorships where we can pass it on to players who do well, fly them out, and get them on TV so they can get some recognition. It's kind of going in that direction, but it's a little slower for us because fighting games in general are not that popular - it's a very niche crowd.
T-ono: That being said, I know that Evolution is mainly something for hardcore gamers. There really aren't any casual gamers walking in and expecting to win the tournament or even competing for that matter. Was there ever or do you really have any plans to somehow entice larger crowds to EVO?
JC: Well, we try to have games that will appeal to the masses. One of those games is Super Smash Brothers; everyone knows how to play it, even if it's not at a competitive level. We've even done Mario Kart in the past. Those are games that you can pick up and be kind of good at - Street Fighter is a little more difficult than that. If you cater to those games [Super Smash Bros.], casual people will come. The way that Street Fighter 4 is looking, they've brought it back to the roots where it has simplistic gameplay but can be played on more complex levels. We expect that to bring in more crowds at the casual level. But third strike and games that have been out for so long won't attract casual gamers because they're so complicated, and so old already. But any new games, if they're easy enough, will attract more people to come.
T-ono: Well, there are obviously a lot of new games coming in this next year, such as Super Turbo HD Remix and Street Fighter 4. But we also have a lot of old games that people love like the original Super Turbo or Third Strike. One of the things EVO has done this year was reduce the lineup to six games. Are there any plans to encompass the new games and keep the old?
JC: In dealing with the lineup for next year, it's a really complicated process. We have games that have been out for ten years, but there's also a brand new generation of games coming out. It's really going to be hard to decide what stays and goes because we had time concerns last year. We're going to stick to the six games instead of going back to the eight games from last year. Any game at EVO this year could be on the chopping block for next year. We think these games have pretty much run the course; we've seen the champions over the years and not much has been changing in games like Third strike and super turbo. With games like Soul Calibur 4 and Super Turbo HD, there can be a brand new crowd because some games are downloadable. We don't ask for player input when we decide this - so we'll just have to wait until next year.
T-ono: Ah, well, are there any games you can say with certainty will either return or be cut?
JC: It’s pretty safe to say Capcom VS SNK 2 will be gone. Even though there's still a hardcore crowd for it, that game's pretty much run its course. There's a lot of substitutions that will happen, like Super Turbo going to Super Turbo HD and Tekken 5 to Tekken 6. Those are the easy ones. Obviously we're looking at Guilty Gear in terms of BlazBlue coming out next year, Street Fighter 4, Soul Calibur 4, or maybe even extending EVO to the King Of Fighters series.
T-ono: So, even though Guilty Gear was cut this year, which was a tough decision as you have mentioned, and the Guilty Gear community wasn't too happy about it. Is it still up for consideration next year?
JC: I think the Guilty Gear series is pretty much coming to an end; I doubt there'll be another game. We won't be doing both Guilty Gear and BlazBlue; if anything, we'd be doing the newer version of a game, which would be BlazBlue.
T-ono: EVO is a console-only tournament now. Even ST, that has no viable console port uses console. Now, according to Aksys, there won't be a BlazBlue console port anytime soon; how does that affect running it at EVO?
JC: EVO basically wouldn't run an arcade tournament unless a sponsor paid us a great deal of money. We would never go back to arcade. There's too many problems like arcade hardware, sticks failing; it's just a general bad idea. It's unfortunate that ArcSoft decided not to put the game on console. When you do that, you wreck a great deal of your crowd, and that would affect the game at EVO. I can tell you 100% right now the game won't be at EVO in arcade form - we can only consider it in console form. We cater to our fans that way and I can't see us going back to arcade any time soon.
T-ono: For example, next year BlazBlue most likely won't be on console yet. Does that mean that Guilty Gear Accent Core will be considered?
JC: Every game in the beginning of the year has a chance of getting in. We have a set type of criteria, maybe ten or twelve points that decide whether a game will or will not get in. If, by chance, BlazBlue won't be out on console, we will revisit the Guilty Gear situation and see where we go from there. There's no decision that Guilty Gear will be in or not. Don't think we're anti-Guilty Gear and we don't want to run your game because there was one year when it didn't go perfectly. It has a decent shot at it next year.
T-ono: Every year, there are games that don't make it into the tournament. Games like Melty Blood or, in this year's case, Guilty Gear have side tournaments in the Bring Your Own Console (BYOC); what impact do you think these games have on EVO?
JC: EVO directors really can't govern what happens in the BYOC area, we don't follow side tournaments. If we hear information, it would be after the event, so we really don't know what happens. It's not only what happens in the BYOC, a game and its community needs to show growth and needs to be a game that everyone wants to play. Just having a tournament in the BYOC won't get the job done.
T-ono: In addition to just side tournaments, people have their own things going on like drama and money matches. Some players bring a lot of drama and have been known to cause trouble. Do you have a general opinion on drama and money matches at EVO?
JC: I think that's what brings the excitement to EVO. You have everyone thinking they're better than someone else and have a money match to determine it, or if they just have crazy side tournaments, betting or money matches where players want to settle something on console. I think that's a really great atmosphere to have and definitely brings hype to the event. As for drama, I'll keep certain players nameless at this point, but if certain players cause trouble, we're usually pretty lenient. You have to be a repeat offender for us to take notice and put you on watch. We have to keep the integrity of the tournament good and the safety of our players well. If we can do that to where we can have exciting money matches and drama matches, I think that makes it a better event and people will walk away happy.
T-ono: The biggest attractions to EVO this year are the four next gen games: Street Fighter IV, Super Turbo HD Remix, Tatsunoko vs Capcom, and BlazBlue. How excited were you to have this and how hard was it to get them here?
JC: When you deal with video game companies, it's a really hard process for them to show products that aren't finished yet. When you have that, it's a lot of hoops to jump through to make it happen. Luckily, we have someone on the inside at Capcom who's worked with us for years and knows the quality of EVO. This is actually the event where you'd want to show off stuff like this, because it's a fighting game and these are the hardcore players who will play your game. So let's get all the bugs out, see what they find, see how they break it, so that programmers can go back and fix it. From what I understand, Tatsunoko vs Capcom has been getting incredible feedback and that will be sent to developers where they can make changes to the game - even though the game might not come out here. They value the feedback that much from EVO and they're willing to take the extra steps to do it. Street Fighter 4's a different story; the game's already out in Japan and will be out on console later on, but it's still something we want to show off to the crowd, because arcades in general are dead. We need to bring out the game so we don't fall behind Japan. What it really comes down to is that once one company hops on, it's like a chain effect. Every company wants in on the action after that. That's how we ended up with Tatsunoko vs Capcom, BlazBlue, Super Turbo HD Remix and some other stuff.
T-ono: Over the years, you've had members of the fighting game community work with Capcom, such as David Sirlin on Super Turbo HD Remix (STHD) and Seth Killian as the General community manager at Capcom Unity. How has this benefited EVO or just the fighting game community in general?
JC: When you actually have someone on the inside, your opinions get through faster. The general goal of EVO is to get these games out so that people can just have a great time. It's really easy when you have that community member who's been working with us for ten years now; he knows our endgame goal and relays that to the company. STHD has gotten an incredible amount of feedback from players, and we're trying make it so that they don't need to patch this game later on and waste more resources on a game that can be better the first time around. It's a win-win situation for everyone involved.
T-ono: What do you feel was the most exciting thing and most disappointing thing to happen this year?
JC: I would say the most exciting thing this year are the location test games. Players are really excited and we are, too. Obviously, smash brothers was disappointing - we knew we were going into this with a fight; but our philosophy at Evo is that we don't deem anything unfair unless it breaks the game. The smash community's philosophy is that they don't want the game to be filled with random skill level and stuff that might affect the skill of the game. The compromise was really fair, in my opinion, but some people didn't see it that way. We'll continue to look at the smash brothers community and see who makes it and doesn't. Being that the expected turnout was low, we can't do anything about that. It was an experiment, and a worthwhile one. We'll see what happens after it ends.
T-ono: Is there anything in general you want to tell gamers about EVO?
JC: The one key thing we want players to remember is that we're not out to get you. We hold this tournament; you may think rules are unfair, one game third strike might screw someone up, but we try to do a fair job across the board. We're one of the fairest organization out there, so don't take anything personally.
T-ono: What about casual gamers? A market you're probably not tapped into yet.
JC: This is a great place if you want to take gaming to the next level or if you just want to learn something about your character. You may see something here you didn't know and you can try it on friends at home. The people here may even turn you around from a casual gamer to a semi competitive gamer.
T-ono: There's a documentary from about six or seven years ago called Bang the Machine that followed players in the fighting game community through a tournament. Although you guys will be showing that on Saturday night, can you tell me what you know about it in terms of the relationship the creator had with EVO and if there are any plans for distribution?
JC: When the creators decided they wanted to do a documentary, they did a ton of research and they came upon our tournament, which was B4 at the time. It was going to be the tournament that would set up the first US vs Japan showdown. They decided to film a documentary about it; they asked to work with us, filmed the tournament, players going to Japan, and all that. It's actually a really good film - even if you're not a hardcore gamer. The release kind of gets into tricky waters where I can't really discuss what's going on behind the scenes. The companies that they were trying to go through are taking a crazy long time to make it happen. We're great friends with the creator and want to make sure everyone remembers it. It'd be great if they put it on a SF4 disc or something where gamers can get their hands on it.
T-ono: That's a shame, but it's nice to know we'll get to watch it at EVO. There have been a lot of pivotal moments at EVO, most notably the Daigo parry comeback. What do you feel was the biggest catalyst to EVO's growth?
JC: These tournaments are all about the event and when you have matches that just spark the room with excitement, that's all you can really hope for. That could drive EVO to the unforeseen land. That Daigo video where he parried all 17 hits and came back to win the round went around the world and back 5000 times. It blew our bandwidth through the roof where we had to get a different server just because of that video. That video and others like it is what keeps fighting games alive. If you want to see this kind of excitement, you need to see it first hand here at EVO. There's nothing like witnessing that kind of excitement in person.
T-ono: You used to be a fighting gamer yourself, and I’m sure you still do as a hobby. What's it like to go from a player to a prominent member of the community?
JC: When I was young and we were playing arcades, we saw how they were running tournaments and felt they could be run more smoothly. As a player, I really just wanted the tournaments to be run more smoothly and faster so that everyone could have a good time. When I started to run my own tournaments, I did a great job and it just made sense to go to the business aspect of it. If you do something the best, why not put it out there and put together an event where everyone can be happy? When you make that transition, you can't play games anymore. I play games when I have time, but planning this event takes ten months out of the year. There's a crazy rush of information that needs to get through. I basically turned tournament organizer; I find it more exciting and exhilarating to run a tournament everyone enjoys than to be a player when nobody knows my name.
T-ono: Well, what would you say is the most rewarding part of running EVO after ten years of these tournaments?
JC: For me, it's all about EVO coming down to that one moment when everyone rises and claps. If I can get one per year, I'd be really pleased with EVO. Obviously, I can't control what happens with top 8. If something like that happens every year, my partners and I will be running EVO for a while to come. We put up with so much during the week from Thursday to Saturday just to get to Sunday. Sunday's my holy grail, and if we can make Sunday the presentation everyone wants to be a part of, I think it's a great event and we'll continue to do it in the future.
T-ono: There were rumors about this year's EVO possibly being the last one. (laugh) I see a smirk on your face. Can you enlighten me on that?
JC: To be honest, if the four heads didn't get together for EVO every year, there very well won't be a next EVO. Nothing's in the works at this point, nothing's planned, if something happens where someone got hurt or we lost the players' trust, we very well could stop EVO. It's just four gamers turn personal organizers who do it for the love of the game. As long as nothing goes wrong and we receive good feedback, we'll keep running them. Nothing's ever set in stone in this industry. There was a time in 2004 when a couple of EVO directors didn't want to take part anymore - not because of the love of the game, but because of the money aspect. It could've ended that year if we didn't carry it on and carry it on. It's always the likelihood, but never 100%.
T-ono: What should players do to guarantee another EVO or big tournament?
JC: The most important thing is to give feedback and tell us we did a great job or give constructive criticism. We want to do a great job and keep you guys coming back for years and years. But if we hear nothing but bad things with no basis whatsoever, it won't look too good. Something like, "We don't like your tournament, cause you guys suck" is a perfect tournament comment we don't want to hear.
T-ono: Final question. This is a gravely important question according to someone on SRK; what's the deal with you wearing orange?
JC: Well, when I was in Japan, I saw a lot of people wearing that color. It just seems like orange isn't a popular color here. I like to be loud, noticed, and it seems like orange was a crazy good color. I just stuck with it and it's been my trademark for the past five-six years. Some people make fun of it, but I really don't care. I think it's a great color and it identifies me. "Find the guy in the orange shirt" or "Find the guy in the orange shoes." It makes it easier to spot me.
T-ono: For the record, I also like wearing orange, pink, and all kinds of weird colors. Finally, thank you for the interview and giving me your time; I realize you're really busy and it was hard to take time away for this.
JC: Thank you, too, for doing the interview and getting the word out about EVO. Hopefully we can do this again in the future.
